It
was an honor to spend a couple of hours chatting with the world-renowned composer,
arranger, producer, performer and Director of A&R at RMM Records, the Incredible
Isidro Infante. Isidro is truly a musician’s musician. He is classically trained and
highly educated. He studied Pre-Med and Natural Science at the University of Puerto Rico,
where he received a BA in Science. He then went on to receive an MA in Art. He studied
piano with a private teacher since the age of nine and went on to study music at the
Conservatory of Puerto Rico founded by the great Pablo Casals of Spain. When he came to
the United States, he then moved to Philadelphia where he received a master’s degree
in Composition and Arranging at Temple University.
Marla:
You started playing piano when you were little? Your idea or your parents?
Isidro:
My father. He was a doctor and being a doctor you are more receptive to the arts. He
played violin and mandolin. He told me that I needed something extra, a hobby - like
piano. Thanks to him I started playing classical piano. Then when I was 14 years old I
started my own rock band. I used to play for all the Naval stations in Puerto Rico. We
used to play Santana, Earth Wind and Fire, Chicago, Carole King, Blood, Sweat and Tears,
all that kind of music.
Marla:
How did you start playing salsa?
Isidro:
In Puerto Rico you listen to salsa and folkloric music every day. So it’s in your
veins already. There were no lessons in folkloric music. Most of the folkloric musicians
learned by ear. A few have studied music but most learned by ear.
I became aware of Latin music at a very young
age. At first I preferred rock music because we were bombarded with it. All the radio
stations played the Beatles, Mick Jagger, the Bee Gees, all the Top 40 artists.
Marla:
Do you have a favorite rock band?
Isidro:
The Beatles because the Beatles always had a different approach to the music. Thanks to
their producer, George Martin, their music always had a classic orientation. And they
mixed very well the classical orientation with rock.
Marla:
How did you get started in producing and arranging?
Isidro:
I started playing background music, conducting and directing for artists in Puerto Rico
like Myrta Silva when I was 16 years old. I had a small band and I was the conductor of a
TV program she had. She was the executive producer and host. It was a variety show that
started here in the 1950s. Then she moved to Puerto Rico and I met her there. She liked
the way I played and she hired me to conduct on her show. At the age of 16 I was
conducting her program.
I was always searching for new things. Even
when I was studying classical music, I used to do different arrangements. All the students
would play 5-10 tunes for our parents and I always did arrangements of classical music
mixed with rock and folkloric music. The other students played strictly what was written.
I used to play what was written plus something else. At an early age I started in a
different direction. That helped me. Then when I studied orchestration and composition in
the University and the Conservatory that helped me a lot to produce. I produced my first
album in 1970 with my own orchestra, Carpe Diem. That was the name of the group. It means
in Latin, "Grab the Day, Live your Life." I also studied philosophy. In the
university you start mixing everything together. The music was mixed with salsa, classical
and a little bit of rock.
Marla:
What arrangers did you study when you started to arrange and produce Latin music?
Isidro:
That’s another thing. When you study arranging, you start arranging classical and
then maybe rock or pop music. There was no such book or class for salsa so we used to
listen to the records. One of the arrangers that I used to follow a lot was Rene
Hernandez, a Cuban guy that came here to New York to work with Machito as a piano player
and arranger and then he was with Tito Rodriguez and then he moved to Puerto Rico and he
died there. He was one of my favorite arrangers.
Then there’s Tito Puente. I always
followed him. He is a great arranger. The early works in the 1950s and 60s were
incredible. I used to follow him and study his scores. Then the movement of Fania brought
to another level, to an international audience, what we call salsa or Afro-Caribbean
rhythms. The Fania movement - Jerry Masucci, Ralph Mercado and Johnny Pacheco - was
responsible for the internationalization of what we call salsa.
Marla:
Since we’re talking about Afro-Caribbean, Afro-Cuban rhythms, salsa...and, as you
know, there are a lot of different opinions out there about where this music comes from, I
want to hear your thoughts about that. I know that the basic rhythms are from Cuba, before
that from Africa, and that they came to New York and had influence from Puerto Rico, jazz,
etc. to develop to what we call salsa. Is that basically how it happened?
Isidro:
It’s very simple. Afro-Caribbean music came from Africa and Spain at the same time.
If you listen to the flamenco in the southern part of Spain, in the places close to
Africa, you will hear behind that flamenco a clave. You will hear rumba there, the roots
of rumba and you will hear all the flavor there mixed with Arabian scales. The Arabs were
in the south of Spain for 700 years and they mixed those Arabic scales with the music of
Spain. When you listen to flamenco you can hear the influence of the chants and scales
from Arabia. They are very particular of that region. When Spain conquered the Caribbean
they killed the Indians, the Taino Indians. There were only Taino Indians in Puerto Rico,
the Dominican Republic, Cuba and Jamaica. They were there and they used to hunt and sleep,
having a great life. They were not hard workers. The Spaniards killed them and brought
others to work. They brought Africans to work because they were stronger and because of
their skin color they could stay longer in the sun. The Africans brought with them their
culture, a part of which was congas, drums. They mixed the African culture with the
Spanish culture (which was influenced by Arabia) and the Taino Indians. It was the same
Indians, Taino Indians throughout the Caribbean so the people in Puerto Rico, Cuba, etc.
were the same. The music is a mixture of these cultures.
The basic parts of today’s salsa comes
from Cuba. Cuba brings guaguancó, son montuno, rumba, guaracha, guajira, son, charanga,
danzón, bolero, cha cha - all those rhythms. When you used to buy a record, it
didn’t say salsa. It would have the name of the song and then it would say the rhythm
- rumba, son, etc. You had to specify. Then from Puerto Rico we had bomba, plena, seis,
aguinaldo, baquiné, danza. And there are variations of all these folkloric sounds.
Now all these styles joined together in New
York. The Hispanic community started growing here as a community and power. They were
separated from the Caribbean. They had another cultural background mixing at the same
time. That was jazz and rock ‘n roll. So salsa now has like 20,000 elements.
It’s hard for people who don’t know music to understand. Maybe they listen to
music but they haven’t studied classical music, the complex rhythms of Inca music,
early Mexican music or music from the Andies. It’s hard for people who haven’t
really studied music to understand the complexity and panorama of salsa. When I arrange a
tune I can show you many rhythms in that arrangement. That is not Cuban music. People who
say that Salsa is just Cuban music with another name are wrong. That’s a ridiculous
statement.
Marla:
Any particular salsa can have many different rhythms, right?
Isidro:
I can play Jerry Rivera, Frankie Rey Ruiz, Gloria Estefan - some of their latest records
start with bomba. People outside don’t know they are starting with Puerto Rican
music. Then the music changes to Cuban rhythms.
You have to feel that. You have to listen.
You have to see that. What I’m telling you right now and what you are going to put on
the internet, I’m telling you that people are not going to be able to absorb it all.
The bomba goes like (Isidro then taps out this rhythm for me). Listen. (He
then does different rhythms for me). I started with bomba and then I switched to a
variation of son combined with guaracha.
Marla:
So now any one song can have many different rhythms in it. It’s not like before
when the song would specify "son montuno" "rumba", etc.
Isidro:
Exactly. What I don’t accept is to call what we have today pure Cuban music.
Myself and many other arrangers, including Sergio George, we mix so many rhythms in our
arrangements. We use pop, ballads, R&B, reggae. Many things are absorbed so we cannot
call that Cuban music because it is not. When you used to listen to Machito that was
Afro-Cuban music mixed with jazz because he was living here and played with a lot of jazz
artists. He did collaborations with Dizzy Gillespie, with the Bird, Charlie Parker, and
they mixed jazz with Afro-Caribbean music.
Marla:
Was that the beginning of the jazz influence on Afro-Caribbean music? Did it start with
Machito?
Isidro:
Machito was one of the pioneers. Puente started playing with Machito. So Machito was one
of the bands here that started this because of the musicality. They had the
instrumentation. In order to play jazz you have to have, besides the piano and the bass,
you need the saxes, the trumpet that were popular in big band orchestras. So Machito,
being considered a small big band, had the opportunity to mix that in to his music. They
were playing with musicians from here. Musicians would come to the club and ask Machito if
they could sit in and jam.
Marla:
Do you know any particular times that happened, specifically?
Isidro:
I will check the records because when I say things I am very careful about the facts. That
is why when I talk about the development of the music I am talking about the facts. There
is no patriotism.
Marla:
You played with Machito. How did that impact your life?
Isidro:
I studied and I played with Machito. When I came here in 1977 I was finishing my
master’s degree in Philadelphia but at the same time I was playing with Machito. I
played with him for six years. I was staying at his house because I was living in
Philadelphia and we were playing here in New York, at Roseland. It was difficult for me to
commute so far so Machito used to tell me to stay at his house. He used to cook for me and
tell me so many stories. He was an encyclopedia. I used to listen and see the arrangements
of his band. René Hernandez, Ray Santos, Pete Madera, all these arrangers, wonderful
arrangers. Machito used to tell me this, "Nationality is an accident. I was born in
Cuba but that was an accident because my parents were there but I could be Chinese. It
depends on my father and mother. If you are in the army, your son could be born in
Germany." He used to tell me this. Machito was a very responsible and very
knowledgeable human being, the best human being that I ever met, a humble humanitarian. He
didn’t know music except through his ears and his heart. That was his guidance. He
was an enlightened person.
I used to be not only his piano player but I
used to be in his house with him and he taught me a lot of things. He showed me a lot of
truths. It is not about patriotism. It is about true facts. It doesn’t matter where
it came from. It is for the world. Beethoven is public domain. It doesn’t matter who
wrote it. After 50 years music is public domain. Salsa is a mixture of many things. It has
a lot of Cuban music. I studied Cuban music. I love Cuban music. We have a lot of things
in salsa that comes from Cuba but the amount of Cuban music in any particular song varies
with the arrangement. It could be 70%. It could be 20%. It’s not right to call that
particular song Cuban music. There are a lot of variables.
Willie Colón has recorded with 90% Brazilian
music and 10% Cuban music. Then in some arrangements there is 95% bomba and 5% son. There
are also African sounds there.
The facts are the facts and have nothing to
do with patriotism. I am Puerto Rican but that has nothing to do with facts.
I did an interview once and was asked about
the Puerto Rican musicians that added to salsa music. In the interview I said that Puerto
Ricans came here before 1898 because in the Spanish-American war Puerto Rico was
conquered. Before that I cannot say that we had a real culture here. 2,000 to 3,000 people
does not make a statement. It has to be at least 50,000 in a community together to have an
impact on the culture. Puerto Ricans were here before other Latin cultures as a community.
I stress as a community because maybe there was a guy from Guatemala or El Salvador here
before a Puerto Rican but I am talking about a large community. So as a community and a
power the Puerto Ricans were here first and they did bring the music together, mixing
together their own folkloric music with Cuban and African music. There could be influence
from Peru, Mexico, the Aztecs, the Mayans who were here before Columbus. It is a very deep
and complex thing and it is in the books.
Marla:
Now that salsa is becoming such a worldwide phenomenon, do you think there will be new
influences and sounds from other countries?
Isidro:
Yes, definitely. I did an arrangement for Johnny Pacheco, "Flauta y Kena" from
five or six years ago. It is typical Peruvian music of the Andies mixed with a little bit
of son montuno but the foundation is Peruvian music. We used the kena. The kena is like a
flauta sound but is typical of Peru, Bolivia, Guatemala and that is totally different
music. I have studied that music and the scales the same way I studied Indian music. You
know when I was in the university my favorite artist was Ravi Shankar. I saw him in Puerto
Rico in 1971 and I used to have a tabla and a sitar specially made in India when I was
only 17 years old.
Marla:
Do you think that influenced your music now?
Isidro:
Yes, I have been influenced by a lot of people. When I studied piano I listened to a lot
of Cuban pianists. I listened to Beny Moré, the singer, one of the pioneers. I listened
to Machito. I listened to Puente but then when Fania came I listened to Eddie Palmieri, to
Ricardo Rey, to Larry Harlow to Papo Lucca, all the pianists that were hot at that moment.
It’s the same thing now. If you are a kid you may be listening to Alanis Moriset but
before that it was Santana, Mick Jagger, the Beatles. Every 10 years it changes so
it’s the same thing with our music. It changes constantly and that’s good
because before there was a very, very selective group of people listening to it. It would
be, "I only like son montuno" or "I like guaguancó." Now you can mix
all those beautiful rhythms. Cuban rhythms are very from the heart. The Cubans bring a lot
of musicality and they invented a lot of things. We have to be thankful to those pioneers
of this music. Naturally it has blended with others things, like rock. Now if I was going
to Russia with the RMM All Stars, La Combinación Perfecta or Celia Cruz I would listen to
the folkloric music of Russia and I would do an arrangement that was 75% Russian and then
I would mix in Afro-Caribbean music. That particular song is not going to be Puerto Rican
music. It’s not going to be Cuban music. It’s not going to be Russian music
either. It is going to be a mixture of everything - that particular song.
When you are listening to Sonera Mantacera
with Celia Cruz, a lot of people don’t know that Celia Cruz replaced Myrta Silva.
Myrta Silva was a Puerto Rican artist/singer/composer. When Myrta Silva moved back to
Puerto Rico they called Celia Cruz.
There were other Puerto Rican singers who
sang in Cuba. When Beny Moré came to Puerto Rico he saw Ismael Rivera and he sanctioned
him "El Sonero Mejor." Beny Moré said that Ismael Rivera was the sonero mejor.
That meant that he respected him a lot. It’s like Beethoven saying that Mozart was
great. Beethoven is Beethoven, maybe the most important musician in all of the human race
but he acknowledged other greats. And Beethoven had to study back in order to become
Beethoven. He had to study Scarlatti, Pontavelli, the rococo and the baroque eras. They
were from the Neo-Classical movement 5 or 10 years later. Music happens that way.
Marla:
So you study back and you move forward. In the evolution of salsa, do you think it will
be sung more and more in English?
Isidro:
Yes, it’s been happening for a couple of years. When salsa started to grow here in
the United States, since the language was English they started to do music in English.
Boogaloo was born here, watusi, a lot of sounds with the background of Afro-Caribbean
music but the lyrics were in English. People in Cuba, people in Puerto did not invent
that. That was invented here because of the language.
Marla:
Do you think it will happen more in salsa? I was talking to India
the other day and she told me that she would like to record more in English to reach a
broader audience. What do you think about that?
Isidro:
That is a very interesting point but the thing is that only the people who are living here
or who speak English fluently who live in Cuba or Puerto Rico will be able to perform it.
If they have a heavy accent or if they don’t know the language, it won’t sound
good. I cannot sing in English. But that is what’s happening. Tito Nieves, La India,
Ray de la Paz are doing that and they will continue. Now the American market is noticing
the importance of the Latin American market. They are on the top of the charts so people
are paying attention to this phenomenon of Latin music. And in the year 2000 the Hispanic
population in the United States is going to be huge, the biggest minority in the country.
Hispanics are voting and becoming an important power in this nation. The future of salsa
is going to be more open to new rhythms and new languages.
Marla:
You just finished your newest CD, "Licensia Para Enganar." It comes out this
month right?
Isidro:
Yes, January 27th. License to Cheat. That particular tune has a hint of James Bond.
It’s yet another example of how we can mix other music, in this case American
film/television themes, into an arrangement.
Marla:
So every time you do a new CD you set out to do something new, something different?
Isidro:
Yes, this time, and this will show you how impartial I am regarding what we were talking
about earlier, I recorded a couple of tunes from Cuba now, like from El Medico de la
Salsa. On the latest production of Isaac Delgado from Cuba we collaborated very well
together and we blended musicians from Cuba, from Puerto Rico and from the United States.
We had a beautiful mix. I am still studying this music and I keep an eye and an ear close
to Cuba because they are always changing. It is difficult to explain to people because of
the politics but I am not a politician. I am a musician and I know that they are doing an
excellent job out there.
Marla:
You recorded a couple of songs from Cuba on your new CD (which I will review and post
on SalsaWeb this week). What other types of music are on it?
Isidro:
I recorded a couple of tunes from Cuba. I recorded a couple of tunes that are modern
R&B type mixed with typical Afro-Caribbean music. I’ve included R&B, rock,
Brazilian rhythms, Afro-Cuban rhythms, Puerto Rican folkloric music. I’ve included
everything. I have a new singer too, 20-year-old Kevin Ceballo. He sings 6 of the
tunes. He’s a very good singer plus he is oriented in modern music. He received a
grant to study music at Long Island University. That is another step into the future. Plus
I have Maggie, Ricky and Marco. I’m combining the old, the new and what is going to
come. Kevin has soul and he knows the style. We are going to incorporate a lot of English
lyrics on the next CD.
Marla:
Congratulations on the album you produced for India, "Sobre El
Fuego," being nominated for a Grammy. How do you feel about that?
Isidro:
I wasn’t expecting to be nominated but it is a great honor. We did a good job because
that CD was done from the heart and India sang incredibly on it. She has a very mature
sound now and she is very in control of her vocals. She has incredible vocal abilities. We
had a great mix of musicians and Luisito Quintero conducting her band. He did all the
percussion and we had an excellent repertoire of musicians and songs. It came out well. I
am very pleased with that album.
Marla:
I hope it wins. Both you and India are incredibly talented and great people too.
Isidro:
And India is one of the ladies that widened the path of this music. Before it was Celia
Cruz and before her La Lupe and a couple of others from Puerto Rico and from Cuba. But to
make a strong statement for the new generation it is La India. The Queen for me is still
and always will be Celia Cruz. She is from Cuba and she is the Queen. Queen Celia Cruz,
King Tito Puente and the Master Machito.
Marla:
So, what’s next for you?
Isidro:
Next, I’m working on Guianko’s new album. I’m working on Celia Cruz new
album too. I’m going to produce that. It’s salsa. We’ve been working on
that for six months already picking out the tunes and getting the right material for her
style. Then probably we are going to do another Combinación Perfecta. Ralphie wants to
work on that, Combinación Perfecta Number 2. Oscar d’Leon is due this year too.
Those are the next couple of things.
Marla:
Do you think SalsaWeb on the internet has had an effect on the growth of salsa?
Isidro:
Yes, the internet is a great way to express ourselves and to get to many people at the
same time really quickly. We need to thank SalsaWeb for helping to spread salsa throughout
the world.
The interview did not end
here. Isidro took me to a piano and played different songs for me as he broke down
the different rhythms. He started to play India’s "Me Cansé De Ser La
Otra" and said, "Can you call this Cuban or Puerto Rican? No, this opening is
rhythm and blues." His love, passion and understanding of the music is clear. This
turned out to be less of an interview and more of a music lesson. It was an experience I
will never forget. |
