Larry Harlow
known as "El Judio Maravilloso"
("The Marvelous Jew")

Interviewed on location in New York City
by Edie Lewis, The Salsa FREAK

When the El Congress Mundial (World Salsa Congress) ended in Puerto Rico, I immediately packed my bags, and headed for Manhattan. During my stay in the Big Apple, I got to experience first hand what NYC Mambo dancing and instructional training was like. I took classes with the legendary NYC Mambo instructors and danced the nights away at world-renowned nightclubs like the Copacabana, The Latin Quarter, and Side Street in the Bronx. It was at these clubs where I met famous dancers, instructors, and choreographers, as well as the musicians, who created this delicious, soul enchanting music. However, out of all the incredibly wonderful sights and sounds of New York, one of the most intriguing highlights of my visit to was getting the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to interview the Latin Legend himself , Mr. Larry Harlow.

In my opinion Larry is bigger than life. His mere presence in the room resonates his music’s vibrance, energy, and passion. When I walked into Larry's  Manhattan home, I immediately felt his warm energy and fast pace. I could tell right away that this man has a passion for music, and a passion for life. He greeted me with a big smile, gave me a huge hug, and the first thing out of his lips was a boisterous, "Welcome to New York!". I'll never forget that. Like the music he brilliantly creates, Larry is an lively, addictingly positive, and "Type A" man. Not only did he make me laugh, but he also had me completely intrigued by his life history, a history that helped shape Latin music into what it is today.

Displayed on the walls of his home, are a collector’s dream of beautifully framed, huge, black and white photographs of Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Bogart, Ms. Jean Harlow, Robert Taylor, Jane Russel, and Marlena Deitrich to name a few. . These are George Hurrell black and white photographs of famous Hollywood stars. Also decorating virtually every wall were posters of his legendary concerts. One poster in particular caught my eye right away. I asked Larry "What's this?" Larry said "This was one of the original posters that decorated the streets of Manhattan, promoting my Latin Music opera, Hommy".

The music opera "Hommy", written and produced by Larry, was a Latin music opera considered by many as one of the most brilliant performances of any musician in history.

Larry then pointed me in the direction of a black and white book of photographs called "Mango Mambo". Mango Mambo by photographer ADAL. It contains some the most famous Latin Musicians of the 70's. Some of the photographs depicted such greats as Tito Puente, Celia Cruz, Ruben Blades, Frankie Dante, and of course, shown at Madison Square Gardens in 1978, the Legend Himself, Mr. Larry Harlow.

Edie: You grew up in Spanish Harlem. What was it like for you as a child?

Larry: I went to the Music and Art High School, "Fame". It was right in the middle of Spanish Harlem on 137th Street. I always wanted to be a Jazz Player. My mother and father and the rest of the family are all singers, dancers, musicians, and comedians. My mother was an opera singer, and my father was the band leader of the original Latin Quarter. He worked for Barbara Walter's father, who owned the original Latin Quarter. I grew up with Barbara Walters We used to sit in the Starlights booth and watch all the shows together when we were kids. My whole family’s into show business. My mother sang at the Met, my brother’s a Saxophone player in Miami, and my son Miles, is a music attorney. My father's two brothers were both musicians, and another is a comedian. My father's father was a theater critic for "The Daily Forward", which was a Jewish Newspaper, he was also a Prompter. I came from a long line of musicians. My father had a "Continental" band. He was like the relief band - the dance band, what we call the Rumba Bands today, the house band. In those days, if a band was coming in from Texas, his band would play a "Deep in the Heart of Texas", or if a band was coming in from France, they would play a French song. He was very continental; he even sang in Spanish, but didn't really speak Spanish that well.

Edie: Is Larry Harlow your original name?

Larry: No, my father changed his name because he thought that Jewish names didn’t go over that well in show business. One day, he got in a car accident and his lung and ribs on left side crushed. A famous doctor by the name of Harlowe saved his life. As a token of his gratitude, my father decided to change his own name to Buddy Harlowe. I took the name, and dropped the "e" at the end of it, and I became Larry Harlow.

Edie: What is your real name?

Larry: My real name is Lawrence Ira Kahn. The derivative is originally from the Switzerland / Austria, Vienna area of Europe.

Edie: Tell me about your father.

Larry: Lou Walters' father discovered my father at Tavern -on-the-Green in NY. Lou Walters is Barbara Walters’ father. We used to hang out together - practically neighbors growing up. After WWII, Lou brought my father to the Latin Quarter Nightclub in Manhattan, where my father then stayed for about 20 years.

Edie: What made you want to become a musician?

Larry: I kind of grew up backstage of the Latin Quarter with Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis; I saw the chorus girls... and then I told my father I wanted to be a Jazz player. My first instrument was the piano. But when I got to the Music and Art High School, if you played the piano, they would teach you another instrument. So, my teacher just looked at me one day and said, "You're an oboe.", and I looked at him and said laughing, "What's an oboe?". So, I became an oboist. I played the oboe for many years. I was in the All City Orchestra, and performed all the classical stuff. From there I learned the flute, the bass from my father, and the vibraphones, which was just like the piano keyboard. I then got involved with a bunch of guys that had what they called a latin band, on 145th Street in Manhattan.

Edie: When did you get involved in your first band?

Larry: When I was about 14, the first band I played with was called "Hugo Dickens and His All Stars" who featured Pete Larocca or Pete Simms, who plays Sonny Rollins now, and Phil Newsum who used to play with me. One day they asked me, "Do you know how to read music?" I shouted "Yes!". So I started playing with them. They would have these Cuban "stock" arrangements. The print was real smudgy and on old recycled paper. They would play instrumentals from it; Mambo #5 & #6 - with no lyrics.

Edie: How long did you play with them?

Larry: For about a day. They threw me out of that band immediately.

Edie: They threw you out? Why?

Larry: Because I didn't know the clave, and I didn't know how to solo. I didn't know what was happening. I was just reading what was on the paper. When they said, "OK, take a solo, I said "What's a solo?". I didn't know how to improvise like the Latin bands. So, after they threw me out, that night I went and bought recordings of, Joe Loco - a very famous Puerto Rican pianiast bandleader Noro Morales, who was a Puerto Rican band leader. I listened to their solos, and the next day, went back to Hugo, and reeled off Joe Loco's solo, note for note because I memorized it just the night before. I had no idea know what I was doing. They still didn’t want me back. I then found an Italian guy by the name of Dominic Lauria who was playing with a band called Randy Carlos. He went to the Music and Arts High School also. Dominic sat me down one day, and showed me on paper, musically in notes, and in time, how the clave falls - how this two bar figure relates to Latin music. Once I saw it on paper, of course I saw that it was brilliant. I finally saw it for the first time, and I knew exactly how the Latin people feel this. They were born with it. They've been raised with this music since they were zero months old. After seeing it on paper, I had to approach it from the other side - the intellectual side, and come back the other way.... then it came to me quite quickly. After that it was all over.

Edie: Did you perform at the Palladium in New York?

Larry: When I was about 15, a friend of mine took me to the Palladium. I was hooked to the music and the dancing. I started playing with these little bands around town, and going to the Palladium every week and dancing all the time. I got better and better and better and my choice of music went away from jazz, and more towards the Latin scene. There was a place called the Catskill mountains, about an hour and half north of NYC, where all the Jews owned hotels. Every hotel had a Rumba band. Tito Puente was in one, Tito Rodriguez was in another, Eddie Palmieri was in another, and so forth. It was like going to school. We did that every summer while we were going to college.

Edie: Did you dance?

Larry: Did I dance? Of course!

Edie: Do you dance on the "1" or the "2"?

Larry: I dance on the "2" and "4".

Edie: Which do you prefer?

Larry: Actually, I prefer dancing lying down!! - Just kidding.

Edie: Purposely clearing her throat, "But you could dance on the "1" if you had to, right?"

Larry: Sure. I can dance on anything..... I can dance on the 1 and a HALF if I had to...

Edie: Why do you prefer dancing on the "2"?

Larry: Because clave falls on the "2".

Edie: Do you know any other instruments?

Larry: All of them. The other night I was talking to Tito Puente play Sunday night at Birdland. It was his closing night, so I went over there. We were talking about the old days, I told him, "Tito, do you remember I used to stand underneath you, and collect your broken drumsticks, and go home and practice with them?" He said to me jokingly, "You ain't that young!" I said, "Yea, I used to take them home and practice with them on my timbales because I wanted to play the timbales." We go back a long way.

Edie: What was it like being Jewish and at the same time being obsessed with playing Latin music?

Larry: My first semester in college, I hung around with a bunch of Jewish guys that supported Latin music a lot. The Jewish people (around the 30's and 40's) really supported Latin music because they were the ones affluent enough to afford to go on vacation to places like Havana, take the dance lessons, AND bring the Cha Cha Cha back to the United States. We’re just as passionate - if not more - than anybody else.

Edie: Tell me about the history of how Mambo / Salsa got started…

Larry: The influx of Puerto Ricans didn't happen until the 50's. Machito was here in the late forties, a few Cuban people here and there.... all that American people knew about Latin music was just Desi Arnaz and Xavier Cugat. They thought that was Latin music. That's what I used to hear. Back then, Latin music was sold in the Bodegas. It wasn't sold in record shops. I had to go to the Bodegas to get the music. I remember when I would come out of my high school, all the Bodegas would have little speakers outside. I studied Latin music in Havana, Cuba prior to becoming a known musician in the United States. Nobody knew who I was before I went to Cuba. I fell in love with Spanish women, with Cuban girls, and with the infrastructure of the Lucumi religion of Santeria.

Edie: What is Lucumi?

Larry Lucumi is an African word of the religion. I fell in love with the musical part of the religion at first. I was very intrigued. I got a little bit more involved and then I became initiated into the religion. I became a Santo, then became a Priest, and so forth.

Edie: You became a priest?

Larry I'm not the only one, there's many white, American people that are into this religion.

Edie Can you summarize the religion?

Larry Now that’s a big question. There’s so much to it, but let me see if I can give you the basics. Santeria is the primary religion in Brazil, there it's called Macumba. I'd say 70% of the people in Brazil are into the religion. The Cubans, the Dominicans, the Puerto Ricans, anywhere where there were slaves. When the Africans were slaves , the music of their religions played a very important part of their existance. The music is a very big part of the religion. They play the fundamentals. They play the basic, the most beautiful part. The macumba, the santo, the mariantas, the chango, it's part of Santeria, part of the Lucumi religion. Historically, the slaves played very basic drums. The rhythm came from the slave trade in Africa. The Lucumi religion itself is about 600 years old. They brought their music over with them. The slaves used bata drums. It's a two-sided drum. They use three batas - a daughter, mother, and a father …..you know a little one, a mid-sized one, and then a big one... and they have basic forms. All these drum patterns evolved into what we now call the Mambo, the Cha Cha, the Guanganco, the Rumba, etc.

Edie: What part of Africa did it come from?

Larry It came from northern Nigeria, near Lagos.

Edie: So the Mambo/Salsa rhythm DID come from a religious tribe in Africa.

Larry Yes. It overshot into the African countries of Congo, into the Dohmnny, into Chad, and other countries like Cameroon as well.

Edie: So let me get this straight. That hypnotic feeling we get when we listen to the basic rhythms of Salsa (Afro-Cuban Mambo or any mixture thereof), that feeling stems from the decent of ritualistic tribal rhythms from ancient Africa?

Larry: Correct. The hypnotic state... it overpowers you. In the religion, the people get overtaken by a spirit, and become one with the spirit. That spirit is called a Orisha. They are also known as Potencias in Santeria, There are 7 of them. In the ritual, a saint comes down and speaks or does through you what it or you have to do to get over whatever ails you or any messages it needs to get across. The ritual has a lot to do with the music because the music puts you into a trance-like state. The cowbell and the congas are the secrets to all that.

Edie: In your opinion, what is the difference between "Mambo" and "Salsa"?

Larry: The name. Mambo was a section of a song. In other words, you have the introduction, then you have the gia, which is the body of the song. And in the next section you have the Montuno section which is what we call the Call and Response section; the Coro and the Inspiration. And the section that followed, used to be called years ago, "estribillo". But then one day, Cachao's brother, Peruchin Lopez, the piano player, called out in the middle of a song, "Mambo!!!" They said, "What do you mean Mambo?" Then Peruchin said to me,  "La proxima parte, "Mambo!!!". And from then on, they called that section of the music "Mambo". It is the section of music when the band came in with the horns and other instruments, but no singing. It was after the first Montuno. Then, when another horn part came in, they would call that "Monia" - which is like the mambo, but another instrumental section. One day Peruchin wrote a song called "Manmo", and when he wrote the word on the piece of paper it read "Mambo", meaning a little faster than the Guaracha. The word Mambo replaced the Estribillo of the music, which is the instrumental horn part of the song. There is no singing in it. Everybody's playing in it at the same time. Then, around the 30’s, the Mambo quickly became a dance. The dance itself is the same as the Guaracha. You're dancing the same to the Guaracha as you dance to a Mambo. You're dancing the same steps to a song except it's a little faster. But basically it's what we call the Mambo step - where you break on "2", holding the "1". It's really a Son Montuno or Guaracha, except faster.

Edie: You travel around a lot. As far as people dancing, what places intrigue you most as far as "where" you think "good" dancers are.

Larry: In New York and LA. I go to Columbia, Japan, Cuba, Puerto Rico, they all have great dancers, but the best dancers are definitely in New York and LA. I go back three generations, to Marilyn and Millie, Ogi and Margo, the ones that really started it off... Killer Joe, Luis Maquina, Cuban Pete, all those guys. I have video footage of dancers from all over place that'll knock your socks off - people dancing - doing real Rumba. The real Rumba started on the docks in Havana, Cuba when the tourists used to come off the boats. Those guys used to dance for quarters.

Edie: Getting back to the word "Salsa". What is that?

Larry: "Salsa" is just a word. What happened was, the Puerto Ricans and Cubans who were the main immigrants to New York in the 50's and 60's, were looking for something to identify with. When Fidel marched into Cuba, the music got cut off from Cuba. We weren't hearing bands like Aragon, and Benny More, or anybody else from Cuba anymore because they weren't selling any more records, and of course, they wouldn't they would no longer play them on the radio. We didn't have access to any of the music anymore, except for us crazy guys who would go down there or go to another country, buy them, and bring them back illegally. So Johnny Pacheco and Eddie Palmieri started Charanga and Son Montuno and developing more Cuban sounds. The songs in the old days didn't really have messages to them. They were more about party songs with bubble-gum lyrics like "I love you" and "Let's party". Then, after the Cuban embargo, suddenly people started writing protest songs or writing messages about humanity, love, and baseball. But it was a song from the beginning to the end. The Montuno and Choro had something to with - what the song was about. It was a complete song. So suddenly the musicians who were now Jazz-oriented and hanging in New York with College degrees, who studied with Klaus Overton other great arrangers like Schillinger, Eddie Palmieri etc, started saying, "Hey, what if we take this one chord, and we put an augmented 11th here, and a flat at 13^th…we started to augment the harmonies. Now it's not just playing a 1,4,5 chord, which is a triad, three notes, but now we're playing sevenths, ninths and thirteenths. Now all of a sudden the arrangements are getting more modern, the lyrics are getting more modern, and the songs are getting more modern...

Edie: Was the music getting more technical, more difficult?

Larry: Not difficult, the sound was just different - more modern, more everything. The rhythm is still the same, or even better, but harder sounding - very typico. The dancers said, "What is this?" So they gave it a name called Salsa. Nobody's really quite sure who actually gave it the name "Salsa" - some attribute it to a DJ in Venezuela, another in New York, but it doesn't matter. It came about in the late 60's. "Echele Salsita", "Give me a little Salsa". They called this whole movement - the movement that the Puerto Ricans were really looking for in the late sixties - they called it "Salsa". But we were still playing the "Mambo" as we saw it.

Then I had an idea one day. There was no "Salsa" band that existed at the time that had trumpets and trombones. Tito Puente had saxes and trumpets Eddie Palmieri had two trombones and flute, or Cohunto, two trumpets, three trumpets, and I said, "Let's put together trombones together with trumpets!"

Edie: No way! You were the first one to try that combination?

Larry: Of course! Then everybody copied my style after that. That started a new movement. Not only in that, but I put violins with horns. And I did La Catera.

There were two guys in my band. One day I asked them , "Hey, do you play any other instruments?" They said they also played a little bit of violin... "A LITTLE BIT?" I said. So I had two horn players that also doubled as violins, so here I’ve got three horns, two violins, and I'm playing Charanga music! All of a sudden there was a resurgence in the Charanga music as well.

I then wrote the first Salsa Opera - named Hommy, then I wrote the first quadrophonic and digital recording, and then put the first Fania All Stars together.

Edie: Tell me about the movie you put together called "Our Latin Thing".

Larry: It was the first Latin film about the music It was my idea to put my passion on film. I was the producer, the star, and the engineer. I worked for two years on that film. I made a total of $127 off the whole thing, but what that did, was open the doors for Europe, South America, Chili, Columbia, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Mexico, and Panama….it was a boom! Our record sales went from 20,000 to 150,000. When the big record labels like Sony and RMM saw there was real money on this stuff, they started selling Latin music all over the place. They didn't have to sell from the Bodegas anymore. The first order from Tower Records was over 100,000 pieces. It used to be that the best place to get Latin music was in the 42nd street subway in New York, or downtown on 116th street. A Jewish guy owns that place. He used to call it Montuno records.

Edie: You have had an enormous impact on the Latin Community. What’s it like, coming from the outside, and not being born Latino?

Larry: I recently did a radio show in LA, on the Alma Del Barrio radio program. The DJ interviewing me really had his act together. He had a fifty-question list, all typed out. He asked me all kinds of questions. he said, "I'm going to ask you fifty questions, and I want honest answers". He got really personal, and I told the truth on the air. He opened up the phone lines and [a gentleman] got on the phone and started [complaining], "Why do all you's Jewish guys control all the studios here in Hollywood, and us Puerto Rican's can't get any work, blah blah… and how can a Jewish guy like you take over the Latin Music business... blah, blah, blah. I simply said to him, "Sir. Do you want to know how you get to Carnegie Hall?" There was a long silence on the other end of the phone. I then said a single word,

"PRACTICE."

He hung up.

Twenty phone calls came after that, applauding my answer.

Edie: Tell me about your new CD release, "La Bodeguita". What inspired you to do it?

Larry: I wanted to make a mini Fania All Star band. I’d been doing a lot of work with Yomo and Adalberto on the Children’s show Sofrito, and we got together and decided to create an All Star band. The market needed a band like this one....With Yomo, Pete Conde, Ismael Miranda and the best musicians in NYC. The release date is February 3^rd, 1998. Along with the release, we have a poster, and a video that is coming with it.

Edie: What is your favorite song on it?

Larry: Now that’s a tough question. I kind of like "Jamaquino". It talks all about the Jamaicans. I’m a sucker for Cha Cha, so I guess I would have to say I like that one the best. I also really like the song called Palo Duro. It’s kind of like a hip Salsa song - it’s very hard to make a choice. I like them all!

Edie: I heard the pre-release tape you gave me, and I agree, I like them all too! Congratulations Larry! You NEVER cease to amaze us! I think I can speak for most Salseros the world over, when I say, "From the bottom of our hearts, thank you so much for the music you’ve so beautifully arranged and created for us to dance to. We couldn’t get our "Salsa fix" without you!"